The best on-line discussion on fatherhood I have seen – Daily Mail on-line

71hxecl41The Daily Mail, along with various other national papers, reported last week on a new genre of confessional literature – by new fathers experiencing negative feelings after their baby was born: The fatherhood taboo.

One of the authors of the three books, is quoted as saying, “New mums are better at parenting than new dads, but there’s a reason why: they are programmed to mother.”

This resulted in an outpouring of comments in the following days, most characterised by generosity and common sense – 176 comments in total.  It is the best discussion on fatherhood on-line that I have ever seen.  Participation was 50/50 men and women.  About one quarter of respondents agreed with the statement and the rest disagreed – vehemently.

The predominant response was a rejection of the difference between the natural instincts of mothers and fathers.

I think it’s absolutely ridiculous.  It’s as natural for a man to be a parent as it is for a woman. [A mother.]

How real and refreshing for this man to admit feeling like this.  I know mothers who feel exactly the same.  Yes, they love their children…..but feel guilty for not being the ‘perfect mum’.

I think this is a complete load of rubbish.  When our daughter was born my husband cried, held her first, changed her clothes and did everything.  I just sat there saying I felt weird and it felt like I was watching it all on TV.  I remember thinking, why is my husband crying?  My husband was and still is as good if not a better parent than me.

We both struggled with parenthood and suffered from postnatal depression.  We both love our children immensely.  I do believe that far more support is needed for parents, mothers and fathers and marriage in the wake of parenthood.

The truth is both sexes can suffer from postnatal depression.  I was the happiest man in the world when my partner gave birth to a healthy daughter.  I’ve heard of women where the opposite is true.

In my family it was the other way round.  For me it took about ten months to truly love my child, for my partner about ten minutes. [A mother.]

What a load of rubbish.  Seriously, women are no different.  I think it depends on the person, not the gender.

For every not paternally inclined father, there is one not maternally inclined mother.

This article is very very sexist.  Some dads are really great parents…..It’s not that easy for mothers to become great parents.  Both genders have to work at it.

Of course loving a child is a learned behaviour.  But they’re wrong on one thing: it’s a learned behaviour for women, too.

What in the world makes you think women aren’t learning from scratch too?

Until he was six weeks, I couldn’t even say the words “I love you”. [A mother.]

Well, I’m a mother of two and I had to learn to bond with my kids.  Motherly love is not instinctive to all women.

Just as some women aren’t maternal, some men aren’t paternal.

Try being a mum, mate!

Now wonder these men and women get depressed – anybody would with all the expectations and pressure which are jacked up by society.

What rubbish.  It’s no easier to be a mother.

I felt worse than that when my son was born. [A mother.]

“It’s different for women.”  Oh no it’s not! [A mother.]

What an interesting read.  I as a mother felt like that with my second baby.  Lasted one day short of a month, replaced by overwhelming love.  Didn’t tell a soul until many years later.

I can really take these comments on board and I am the mother (yikes).  Being a parent is learned behaviour and I felt very indifferent to both of my children when they were born

A man doesn’t have much of a foundation in fathering.  It’s more on-the-job training – and it starts the day he becomes a father.  It’s exactly the same for new mothers.

Fortunately today, when mothers don’t bond instantly with their child and experience the associated sadness and guilt, they are usually supported by medical staff – we know that it is ridiculous to expect that every mother will fall instantly in love with their baby….I clearly remember thinking how easy it would be to hurl the wailing child from me as I cradled my third newborn on the first night home.

Don’t kid yourselves that it’s only dads that feel that way – some mothers struggle too!  My other half fell in love with our daughter straight away but it took me some time to love the little jaundiced yellow, screaming, poop machine who refused point blank to breastfeed and caused me all sorts of anxiety as a result.

This man had a problem bonding.  Let’s not say that all men need to be ‘taught’ how to love their children.

All three of my brothers have been hands-on fathers from day one – so don’t stereotype.

Actually, loving a newborn is, strictly speaking, ‘natural’ for many fathers – while your partner is pregnant, your hormonal balance will be radically altered by being with her, so making you ‘naturally’ more nurturing in time for the birth.

Absolutely no different between men and women…. You have to learn to be a mother too!

Am I the only person that finds this article offensive?  For most men paternal love isn’t learned behaviour – it’s pure and instant instinct.

Reality check here guys and dolls – a LOT of mothers hate their child as well – and a LOT of mothers have to make a determined effort to love it.

Programmed?  No-one is PROGRAMMED.  Mothers learn, as well as fathers.  The only difference is that the future fathers DO NOT BOTHER TO LEARN anything, expecting mothers to be PROGRAMMED and to know everything.

I don’t believe any man hates a baby but rather dislikes the fact they are not given any indication that they are doing the right thing.  [A mother.]

I think you’ll find for most fathers it is instinctive to love their child.  You are not alone, but you are definitely NOT the majority.  And not ALL women are always natural mothers either.

This tallies with my experience of new fatherhood, but my wife wasn’t much different.  Her solution – “fake it till you make it”.

Some fathers described their opposite reactions:

The greatest moment of my life was holding my first son in my arms just after he had been born.

I couldn’t be more happy now with a child in our life – of course it’s a big change in your lifestyle – both financially and any free time disappears – but the pleasure she brings when watching her play, learning to speak, doing funny little dances is simply amazing and I wouldn’t change it for the world!

I love my kids more than the world and have since the moment I held them in my arms.

Some mothers described the benefits and challenges to mothers of active fatherhood in the early period.

I do feel that men are so often forgotten when they become fathers – their feelings are often ignored and if they do try and say how they really feel, they are accused of being childish and attention seeking.  This only alienates them more – often leading to the breakdown of the marriage or relationship….Women are able to speak openly about postnatal depression and not bonding with their children immediately – let’s listen to men now.

The best thing fathers can do it be involved from day 1.  My husband bathed our babies for the first six months (I feigned being too scared).  It was a fab bonding experience and had him just as much a part of their lives.  The best thing a woman can do is to ‘allow’ men to find their way and not be a control freak.

Mum is pretty much around the baby 24/7 so the father is never actually left alone with the baby for more than a couple of hours or given a decent chance to bond with the baby.  Then, for many men after the newborn stage once the baby has a routine and a smile and interacts more, they start to form their bonds but by then it can be too late.

Circumstances made it impossible for my husband not to help me more than most men have to.  He got up in the middle of the night for the 2am feeding and it was “their time” and it was sacred.  I would get up many times and find her asleep wrapped totally in his arms.  My rheumatoid arthritis was causing me such severe pain I could barely lift a six pound infant and he felt needed beyond belief (because he was).  I think this may be the key.  Allowing him to have a regular feeding or two (you can pump your milk).  It WILL work and she will not reject this if you stick with it.  And the rewards are wonderful for all of you.

Finally, my favourite of all 176 responses, the only comment from a child:

This is so unfair on the poor little babies!  I know my father absolutely loves me and my brother and always has done.

  • sheila oneill
    I have no doubts that dads have post natel depression the same as mums. After all any dedicated dad will have the same feelings of responsiblity to the child as a mum.
    It may be that mothers have stronger feelings as their body has gone through all the hormone changes during pregnancy and birth but love is an emotion that is challanged with the feelings of responsiblity.
    Its natures way of ensuring the off spring survive and why equal doses are needed by both birth parents. It is also why no-one should attempt to split up birth families as the greatest love and care will always come from the birth parents and extended family.
    If something is not working its far better to fix it, so when the off spring grow into adults they will have learnt the other skills for survival.
  • Very interesting way of thinking..I do think that it depends on the type of person. Not every man had post natal depression...I know I didn't have. But then again that's me.
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